Episode
Why Has Recruiting
Not Changed Since 1996?
with Matt Schalsey, CEO, PerfectHire
Matt Schalsey, CEO of PerfectHire, comes to the table with a bold claim: recruiters are salespeople whether they admit it or not. Ashley immediately pushes back — “recruiting is sales plus ethics” — and from there, things get interesting.
Des and Ashley dig into the vanity metrics that have been propping up recruiting for decades, the ATS systems quietly blocking candidates from reapplying (yes, really), and why nobody in this industry can prove recruiting ROI the way sales can. If you've ever tried to make the business case for your talent function and come up short, this episode is for you.
Matt also breaks down PerfectHire's new Agency Plus platform — built specifically for agencies and embedded recruiters who are tired of tools that don't fit how they actually work.
Talentless listeners get one free month with code TALENTLESS.
Listen to the episode
Hit play below to listen right here — or find us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Mentioned in this episode
Try PerfectHire's Agency Plus platform free for one month — exclusive for Talentless listeners.
Episode Transcript
Full conversation — searchable and screen-reader friendly
Desiree: Alright y'all, buckle up. This is gonna be a good one. I just came off doing Tai Chi so I'm like super amped today. We are excited for this one. We are talking to CEO of Perfect Hire, Matt Schalsey. And we're talking today about why recruiting still feels like we're still doing the same thing since 1996. I have a huge affinity for this topic because I get mad at people who are still trying to run everything like we live in 1996.
Matt Schalsey: Yeah, short answer — I kept getting laid off and I was tired of it. I kept diving into all of these scenarios of like, am I really that bad at my job? Where is the problem here? I was running all of these audits around programming and every one of my programs I've always had cross-tested by other people. And so I did a little bit of training with recruiters, being like, you guys are almost salespeople. And they're like, we're not salespeople. I'm like, but you are. You're selling a culture, you're selling a salary, you're selling a vision, you're selling a career trajectory, you're selling a manager, you're selling their life.
Desiree: I agree with you to some degree. I think there's a piece of this that is very, we are selling a lot of things, but I hesitate to call us completely salespeople. I think how recruiters are trained, I don't think it's necessarily that way today.
Ashley: I believe that recruiting is sales plus ethics. Because whenever you're a recruiter, I am not using some company's monopoly money to try to get you to buy something. No, I'm asking for a whole different level of trust. I'm needing you to trust me with your family, your home, your dog, your insurance, everything else that comes with the change of a job.